What if the biggest obstacle to your leadership isn't your strategy, experience, or knowledge—but the conversations you're having every day?
A leader can have a strong business plan, years of experience, and a shelf full of leadership books and still struggle to lead effectively. The problem may not be a lack of knowledge. It may be the way relationships, assumptions, trust, and communication patterns are affecting everyday interactions.
On Episode 51 of the Glovisor Podcast, Joe Abreu speaks with Keith Greer, LCSW, PCC, an executive coach, trainer, and leadership expert with more than 40 years in the helping professions. Keith works with corporate clients, nonprofit organizations, and has developed a particular interest in family-owned businesses, where leadership and family relationships often intersect.
His central message is simple but powerful: leadership is fundamentally a relationship, and relationships begin and end with trust.
Leadership Isn't Just About Knowing What to Do
Many leadership conversations focus on strategies, frameworks, and techniques. Keith challenges that assumption by pointing to something deeper: self-awareness.
He describes one client who was stuck because he needed to have a difficult conversation with someone on his team. The leader wasn't avoiding the conversation because he lacked a leadership book or didn't know the mechanics of management. He was caught in a collection of assumptions and fears.
Would he say the right thing? Would the other person become upset? Would there be conflict? Would he handle the emotional reaction correctly?
The result was that the conversation happened repeatedly in the leader's head—but not with the person who actually needed to hear it.
This is a common leadership trap: confusing preparation with progress.
Sometimes leaders keep searching for another strategy when what they really need is the courage and self-awareness to examine what is keeping them from having the conversation.
The Most Powerful Leaders May Be the Most Self-Aware
Keith's approach to leadership coaching comes from a career that began in clinical social work and family therapy.
One of the lessons he learned early was that he did not need to be the expert on the people sitting in front of him. In family therapy, the family itself was the expert on its own experience. His role was to facilitate the conversation rather than assume he knew what was best for everyone involved.
That philosophy carried into his transition to coaching.
Keith doesn't believe he needs to have all the answers for his clients. Instead, he helps people discover strengths and capacities they may already possess but haven't recognized.
That distinction changes the role of a coach.
Instead of telling a leader what to do, coaching can help the leader see what they already know, understand what is getting in the way, and make more intentional choices about where they want to go.
For leaders, that creates an important question:
Are you constantly looking for answers outside yourself—or are you developing the ability to examine your own assumptions, reactions, and patterns?
Therapy and Coaching Start From Different Places
Keith also offers a useful distinction between therapy and coaching.
He describes therapy, in a general sense, as a conversation that often starts with the past and moves toward the present. It may involve past losses, hurts, trauma, or experiences that are affecting a person's current functioning.
Coaching, by contrast, generally starts with the present and moves toward the future.
The question becomes: Where are you today? Where do you want to go? What is your vision? What actions can move you in that direction?
Keith does acknowledge that his coaching can sometimes touch the edges of therapy because examining assumptions and increasing awareness can involve looking at patterns that have roots in the past. But his coaching work remains primarily action-oriented and focused on helping clients move toward their personal or professional vision.
That distinction is particularly relevant for executive coaching because leadership challenges often involve both behavior and the thinking behind that behavior.
What Makes Someone Coachable?
Keith doesn't define his ideal client primarily by company size, revenue, or number of employees.
Instead, he looks for something more personal.
He wants to work with people who are courageous, curious about themselves, and invested in personal development and personal awareness.
That curiosity includes both sides of the equation: understanding strengths that help move someone forward and becoming aware of the patterns that may be holding them back.
This is an important insight for entrepreneurs and executives.
Being coachable isn't simply being willing to receive advice. It is being willing to examine yourself.
That can require considerably more courage than learning another management technique.
Leadership Is a Relationship
One of Keith's most important statements in the episode is also one of the simplest:
"At the end of the day, leadership is nothing more than a relationship."
That perspective changes how leadership communication should be viewed.
If leadership is a relationship, then the principles that govern relationships outside the workplace matter inside the workplace as well.
Trust matters.
Respect matters.
Listening matters.
Self-awareness matters.
The ability to navigate difficult conversations matters.
And the leader's behavior affects the relationship just as much as the employee's behavior does.
This is why a leadership problem can sometimes actually be a communication problem.
The strategy may be fine. The organizational structure may be fine. The employee may even have the skills necessary to succeed.
But if the relationship between the leader and employee has deteriorated, the strategy may never have a chance to work.
Conversational Intelligence: How Communication Creates Trust or Threat
A major part of Keith's work is based on conversational intelligence, or CIQ, a modality developed by Judith Glaser.
Keith explains that conversational intelligence examines how specific conversational strategies and patterns can influence whether another person's brain perceives an interaction as trustworthy or threatening.
That means communication isn't simply about the words themselves.
Keith works with clients to examine their specific conversational patterns, including the words they use, tone of voice, body language, and the relationship between verbal and nonverbal communication.
The objective is not to manipulate another person.
It is to become more aware of how your communication is actually landing.
A leader might intend to be direct, for example, but the other person may experience the communication as threatening. Another leader may believe they are simply challenging an employee, while the employee experiences the interaction as disrespect.
Intent matters—but impact matters too.
Why Trust Affects Thinking and Performance
Keith connects conversational intelligence directly to trust and the ability to think effectively.
He explains that when people perceive another person as a threat, the brain shifts into a state focused on safety and protection. That is very different from the mental state needed for thoughtful problem-solving, creativity, and strong decision-making.
For leaders, the implication is significant.
If you want people to do their best thinking, the environment needs to support trust.
That doesn't mean avoiding accountability or difficult conversations. It means recognizing that people are less likely to contribute their best ideas when they are primarily focused on protecting themselves.
Keith's point is that trust isn't a soft leadership concept sitting on the sidelines of performance.
It is part of the environment in which performance happens.
Appreciation and Strengths Can Change the Leadership Conversation
Keith also incorporates psychological safety and positive psychology into his leadership work.
One concept he emphasizes is appreciation and value.
He makes an important distinction: appreciation shouldn't exist only because of what someone produces for the company. It should also recognize the value of the human being.
That perspective connects with another principle from positive psychology: helping people recognize their strengths.
Keith argues that constantly pointing out what people do poorly is not the most effective way to help them grow. Instead, leaders can help people identify and build upon their strengths.
For a leader, this changes the question from:
"What is this person doing wrong?"
to:
"What strengths does this person already have, and how can I help them use those strengths more effectively?"
That doesn't eliminate performance problems. It changes the context in which those problems are addressed.
Why Leaders Can't Actually Motivate Their Employees
Another powerful idea in the conversation challenges a common phrase in business: "How do I motivate my team?"
Keith's answer is that motivation is an internal experience.
A leader can influence someone. A leader can inspire someone. But a leader cannot simply inject motivation into another human being.
This is where motivational interviewing comes into Keith's approach.
Motivational interviewing helps people explore what they are actually motivated to do by asking questions, remaining curious, and helping them identify their own reasons for change.
That can produce a very different leadership conversation.
Instead of saying:
"You need to change."
The leader becomes curious:
"What is happening from your perspective?"
"What is making this difficult?"
"What would you be willing to change?"
"What matters to you?"
The employee still has responsibility for their choices. But the leader isn't pretending that control over another human being is possible.
You Can't Control Other People
Keith takes this concept even further.
One of the examples he gives involves an employee who regularly arrives late to work.
A traditional management approach might be to issue increasingly serious warnings: You need to arrive on time, and there will be consequences if you don't.
There may be legitimate workplace consequences, but Keith suggests a different communication approach.
The leader can become curious about why the person is making the choices they are making. The leader can explain the impact of the behavior, communicate genuine concern, identify the person's strengths and value, and make the consequences clear.
But ultimately, the decision belongs to the employee.
Keith's larger point is that human beings cannot control other human beings. Leaders can influence, communicate, establish expectations, and define consequences—but they cannot control another person's internal decisions.
Recognizing that reality can change leadership.
Instead of exhausting yourself trying to control people, you can focus on what you actually control: your own behavior, communication, boundaries, expectations, and choices.
The Hidden Problem With Too Many Team Meetings
Keith also addresses one of the most familiar frustrations in business: ineffective meetings.
His concern isn't simply that meetings take too much time. It's that many meetings fail to create the trust, clarity, and shared understanding that should make them worthwhile.
A meeting can consume 50 minutes and still leave everyone confused about what happened.
Keith points to the "water cooler conversations" that often follow ineffective meetings as evidence. Employees gather afterward and complain that the meeting was a waste of time, that decisions were made without their input, or that they already have too much on their plates.
Those conversations can reveal what wasn't accomplished in the original meeting.
Effective meetings require more than an agenda.
People need to understand why they are there. They need to be on the same page. They need opportunities to contribute. Leaders need to create trust and communicate appreciation and value.
The goal isn't simply to finish the meeting.
The goal is to make the conversation productive.
One Leader Transformed Her Team Meetings
Keith shares a powerful example of what this can look like in practice.
As part of a leadership development program, he worked with a woman in a technology company who had responsibility for approximately 30 people through three team leaders.
The leadership program covered conversational intelligence, motivational interviewing, psychological safety, and related models. One focus was how to conduct productive team meetings.
After completing the training, she began applying what she had learned to her team's monthly meetings.
The meetings became opportunities for planning, celebration, and connection. Her team began responding positively, and the meetings developed a noticeably more positive tone.
Eventually, the company—which had approximately 500 employees—asked her to conduct an in-service for other leaders because the feedback from her team was so different from what the company was hearing elsewhere.
Rather than simply consuming time, her meetings had become something her team valued.
The most important part of the story may be what happened between the training and the result.
She didn't simply learn a leadership concept.
She experimented.
She was willing to be vulnerable as a leader, try something different, observe what happened, and continue.
That is leadership development in practice.
The Common Thread: Trust
Although Keith discusses several different models—conversational intelligence, psychological safety, positive psychology, and motivational interviewing—they all connect to the same underlying principle.
Trust.
Conversational intelligence asks what communication patterns create trust or threat.
Psychological safety creates an environment where people can participate more openly.
Positive psychology emphasizes strengths and appreciation.
Motivational interviewing respects the individual's ability to make their own choices.
Different approaches, but a common foundation: the quality of the relationship.
That's why Keith's final message is so direct.
Trust, trust, trust.
The Most Important Leadership Question May Be About You
Perhaps the deepest lesson in the episode comes at the end of the conversation.
When a conversation goes badly, it is easy to decide that the other person caused the problem.
They were difficult.
They were defensive.
They weren't listening.
They misunderstood.
They were wrong.
But if both people leave the conversation believing the other person is entirely to blame, nothing changes.
Keith suggests another response: curiosity.
"What is that for me?"
"Why am I reacting this way?"
"Where is that coming from?"
That doesn't mean accepting blame for everything. It means recognizing that self-awareness creates an opportunity that blame doesn't.
If you become curious about your own reactions, assumptions, and communication patterns, you have something you can actually work with.
And that creates the possibility of rebuilding trust and making future conversations more productive.
Better Leadership Starts With Better Conversations
The message of Keith Greer's conversation with Joe Abreu is ultimately not that leaders need another communication technique.
It is that leaders need to become more aware of the relationships they are creating through their communication.
A difficult employee conversation may be a leadership challenge—but it may also be a self-awareness challenge.
A disengaged employee may appear to have a motivation problem—but the leader may need to understand what actually motivates that individual.
A dysfunctional meeting may look like a productivity problem—but the deeper issue may be trust, appreciation, participation, or clarity.
And a strained leadership relationship may not be fixed by another leadership book.
Sometimes it begins with a better conversation.
For entrepreneurs, business owners, executives, and professionals who want to strengthen communication, personal development, leadership, and business performance, Glovisor offers additional resources, coaching, training, and conversations designed to help people grow.
The Leadership Lesson to Remember: Trust, Trust, Trust
Keith Greer's final message is remarkably simple:
Trust is the foundation.
It matters in leadership. It matters in business. It matters in families. It matters in friendships. And it matters whenever two people with different perspectives need to work together.
You cannot force another person to see the world exactly as you do. Trying to push people into agreement can cause them to dig in more deeply.
But you can become more curious.
You can listen.
You can examine your own assumptions.
You can communicate with greater awareness.
You can create psychological safety.
You can recognize people's strengths.
You can respect their ability to make their own choices.
And you can build trust one conversation at a time.
Leadership doesn't begin with having all the answers.
It begins with understanding yourself, understanding your relationships, and becoming intentional about the conversations that shape them.